Blu-ray Durability on Netflix vs HD-DVD

[av.pallino]

My personal experience says that Blu Ray disks are rock solid when it comes to durability. Even better than DVD.

Back when I was getting disks from Netflix I never had a problem with a Blu ray disk. Not one. The problems I had were very sllloooowww shipping and sometimes DVD disks in Blu Ray sleeves.

Even at home my 2 year old pretty much handles any Blu ray disk with dirty fingers and all. She even throws them around and yet they always play fine on my Sony TP HTPC. Never had a glitch of any kind even with disks that had bad finger prints etc.

So overall Blu Ray disks are an improvement over DVD in every way possible from a physical perspective. In my opinion.

[srw1000]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Why, you have accused me of being dishonest.

I haven't questioned your Blu-ray specs, even though you admitted to faking a picture.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I did number 4 picture just to show how easy it is to create false information, there was no other intent. I spent less than two minutes creating the false crack. If more time was used for blending and air brushing I feel certain I could have made it look very real. And as stated earlier, tools are readily available that could produce a physical smooth crack as you have shown. I could not come anywhere close to producing a crack like you have shown by using physical abuse.

Then the fake picture didn't really add anything to this thread. Other to insinuate that some significant number of pictures may have been manipulated, creating doubt that there's any kind of actual problem, in spite of statements to the contrary by Neflix officials.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Below is the first page of my Netflix rental history. It is my understanding that any disc problems will show up under the Details column. If need be, I will do my entire rental history but it will be done at my convenience.

That wouldn't really add anything to the thread. Again, one person's experience may not be representative of the whole. Second, you've already shown that you can and will manipulate photos to make a point; it would be a piece of cake to alter a screen shot to show that a rental history has no problems on it.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

And contacting Netflix, if you know how then let me know!!

The email address for investor relations is ir@netflix.com. It's right on their Contact Us webpage.

Scott

[srw1000]

Actually, looking at the investor tools on the Netflix website, the following quote was taken from their Annual Report Filed 02/25/09 for the Period Ending 12/31/08:

Studios have begun to release films in high definition format on Blu-ray. This new high definition format DVD has higher damage rates
than we currently experience with standard definition DVDs. If we were to see a significant increase in the number of Blu-ray DVDs we ship or
an increase in the percentage of Blu-ray DVDs our subscribers take and the damage rates remained higher than standard definition DVDs, our
gross margins, profitability and cash flow could be adversely affected.

The only information missing is just how much higher the damage rates are. They may not be willing to release that information.

Scott

[Smonkey]

Originally Posted by srw1000

The latest cracked disc problem I've had from Blockbuster Online is The Mummy 3. Just like the others, it's cracked along the outside edge of the disc. As a result, about 2-3 minutes of the movie wouldn't play. Oddly enough, this wasn't at the beginning or the end of the movie, but about 30 minutes into it. I didn't check to see if it affected any of the bonus features.

The crack measures around 4 mm, and I took a couple of pictures. It's hard to see on the picture-side of the disc, but pretty obvious on the data side.





That makes four cracked discs which have resulted in playback problems, which adds up to almost 9% of my rentals. That's not a good track record, but better than some of the others that have posted here.

The question remains as to how much of this is a format problem versus a handling problem.

Scott

The Second picture is exactly the same as every bad disk I got from Netflix . At first I thought it was some kind of new security molded into the disks.
I quit the Blu-ray service because of long waits and when the disks finally showed up, half had cracks like this.
At one point I received two cracked replacements in a row.
Maybe my mailman lets his kids play frisbee with them before delivery
I wonder if using a pc drive to play Blu-rays aggravated the problem. Maybe some of the nicked disks would have played on a stand alone?
But everyone that wouldn't play, did have the small crack on the edge.

[mproper]

Just put Untraceable from Netflix into my PS3 and got a "disc cannot be played" message.

Took a look, and there's a crack just like that along the edge. That makes 3 or 4 now I've gotten.

At least NF is good about sending a replacement. I'll take a picture before I mail it back if you guys want, but I don't really think it's necessary.

[Calamus]

Only been a NF scriber for 3 months and only rent BD so not a very long track record, but so far 100% problem free.

[Nosferax]

Don't know about netflix since I'm canadian but I use 2 similar services, Zip.ca and Cinemail.ca

I've rented over 200 disk from Zip.ca and about 60 from Cinemail and got only one bad disk from Zip. The disk was splited on one side. But it was in the dead of winter with avg temp. of -20 celsius so i'm not suprised that it may have cracked if it was droped or hit during transit.

[oneate7]

I was searching around for folks having similar problems with netflix Blu-Ray discs, came upon this thread, and couldn't help myself.

First off, there is absolutely SOME issue with Blu-Ray being sent through the mail. My problem seems to be worst than most (maybe my postal service is rough), but out of 10 Blu-Ray from netflix since I got my player, 10 have been cracked. All of the cracks fit the standard "small line at the edge of the disc" profile although I had a couple that had two cracks right next to each other that made a little triangle that looked like it was about to fall out of the disc. Netflix has been very nice about the whole thing; they alway send me another one right away if the disc won't play and they've given me several free rentals for my trouble. I should mention that some of the discs still play just fine, even though they are cracked.

Also, I've been a netflix customer since April of 2006 and I've never had a DVD not play. I can't say that they haven't been cracked with any certainty, since I never had a reason to check.

In any case, here is a look at my rental history before and after Blu-Ray (Point Break is the first Blu-Ray listed). American Gangster was also cracked, but played, and I forgot to report it. Each time it says, "Replacement shipped..." under a title is a time that the Blu-Ray did not play. Notice that I had a terrible time with WALL-E. I actually just went and bought that one... never got one that played. Neither did Point Break for that matter... I had to go to blockbuster and pick one up (we were having a Point Break on Blu-Ray party and time was of the essence... don't ask ;-))

Anyway...


Before:


After:


I think I have four or five sitting around the house at the moment thanks to all the free rentals... I'll snap some photos and post them later if I have time and anyone cares to see.

[johnbe]

Be careful oneate7 or you will be accused of faking the report. Maybe someone will now show how easy it is to produce a faked rental history. Seems instead of trying to get to the bottom of problems with certain discs, some just can't accept that nothing is perfect, and that includes blu-ray discs. Anyway, welcome to AVS. You can usually find some very helpful information here.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by johnbe

Be careful oneate7 or you will be accused of faking the report. Maybe someone will now show how easy it is to produce a faked rental history. Seems instead of trying to get to the bottom of problems with certain discs, some just can't accept that nothing is perfect, and that includes blu-ray discs. Anyway, welcome to AVS. You can usually find some very helpful information here.

If 10 out of 10 disk that someone received are craked I would start blaming the letter carrier more than the media in question. Maybe the mail sorting machine in is region need a recalibration or the mail service is just sloppy.

I saw an old documentary on the USPO a couple of years ago, and the guy were litteraly throwing the parcels and letters in the destination bin instead of walking to them and depositing them. The last bin was a good 30 feet away from the guy.

[johnbe]

Originally Posted by Nosferax

If 10 out of 10 disk that someone received are craked I would start blaming the letter carrier more than the media in question. Maybe the mail sorting machine in is region need a recalibration or the mail service is just sloppy.

The envelopes netflix uses are pretty flimsy and I would put the blame on them more so than the post office. Something a bit more sturdy would probably reduce accidental mail sorting problems. As far as the inside ring cracks, it is possible that it could have cracked when removing it from the case and put into circulation by Netflix. The one time I had a disc crack on the inside was when the disc was so firmly in the case that I had a problem getting it off the spindle. When I did get it off, it had nicked the inside of the disc. I ended up getting Best Buy to exchange it. I told them what had happened and they didn't give me any grief on the exchange. I don't know if Netflix gets their discs still in the case, but if they do, it wouldn't surprise me to find that they do not use the greatest of care when they take them off the spindle.

[Nosferax]

Originally Posted by johnbe

The envelopes netflix uses are pretty flimsy and I would put the blame on them more so than the post office. Something a bit more sturdy would probably reduce accidental mail sorting problems. As far as the inside ring cracks, it is possible that it could have cracked when removing it from the case and put into circulation by Netflix. The one time I had a disc crack on the inside was when the disc was so firmly in the case that I had a problem getting it off the spindle. When I did get it off, it had nicked the inside of the disc. I ended up getting Best Buy to exchange it. I told them what had happened and they didn't give me any grief on the exchange. I don't know if Netflix gets their discs still in the case, but if they do, it wouldn't surprise me to find that they do not use the greatest of care when they take them off the spindle.

All those services use the same flimsy envelopes. Maybe Canada Post takes better care of the mail than USPO because except for one disk that I talked about earlier I don't seem to have any problem with those mailer. And I live in a rural area where the mail is delivered by a sub-contractor.

[johnbe]

Originally Posted by Nosferax

All those services use the same flimsy envelopes. Maybe Canada Post takes better care of the mail than USPO because except for one disk that I talked about earlier I don't seem to have any problem with those mailer. And I live in a rural area where the mail is delivered by a sub-contractor.

I used to use Blockbuster and I thought they had a sturdier mailer. Must not be remembering correctly. Just to let you know, I haven't had any major problems like cracked discs except for a few occurances be it dvd, hd-dvd, or blu-ray. I expect there to be problems from time to time as nothing is perfect. As long as the company handles any problems I have, with speed and respect, I am more than happy to keep the service. The value is quite excellent.

[oneate7]

Originally Posted by johnbe

Be careful oneate7 or you will be accused of faking the report. Maybe someone will now show how easy it is to produce a faked rental history.

:-) I was surprised it didn't happen within an hour.


The postal system is almost certainly where the damage occurs (and mine in particular seems to be worst than most), but my blu-ray discs are coming through the same postal system as my dvds did.

I guess my biggest problem is that netflix knows that there is some kind of issue (the customer service guy I talked to on the phone said that he though blu-ray were thicker and therefore more prone to damge in the sorter) and they're not doing anything about it. In fact, I just got my e-mail today letting me know that they're going to start charging me an extra $3 per month for blu-ray access. Why oh why would I pay even more per month when I have yet to receive an uncracked disc?

[webphilosopher]

Originally Posted by oneate7

:-) In fact, I just got my e-mail today letting me know that they're going to start charging me an extra $3 per month for blu-ray access. Why oh why would I pay even more per month when I have yet to receive an uncracked disc?

I did notice this fee change for blu-ray rentals on the Netflix page. It seems like a pretty hefty increase all at once. Maybe there are other reasons -- besides cracked discs -- for their doing that. Maybe there is a royalty fee increase for rentals or whatever.

As far as cracked discs are concerned, I have received quite a few cracked DVD's. I do think that the postal sorting equipment takes its toll on discs. For one thing, the mail has to twist around corners on its path. I wonder how many credit cards get mangled that way too. Or maybe their smaller size gives them an advantage.

[42Plasmaman]

Originally Posted by srw1000

The latest cracked disc problem I've had from Blockbuster Online is The Mummy 3. Just like the others, it's cracked along the outside edge of the disc. As a result, about 2-3 minutes of the movie wouldn't play. Oddly enough, this wasn't at the beginning or the end of the movie, but about 30 minutes into it. I didn't check to see if it affected any of the bonus features.

The crack measures around 4 mm, and I took a couple of pictures. It's hard to see on the picture-side of the disc, but pretty obvious on the data side.





That makes four cracked discs which have resulted in playback problems, which adds up to almost 9% of my rentals. That's not a good track record, but better than some of the others that have posted here.

The question remains as to how much of this is a format problem versus a handling problem.

Scott

Got my first cracked BD from BB today.
The crack characterists looks just like yours.
Crack on the bottom & top.

This is a fairly new title(Punisher 2) so the disc hasn't made it around the block yet but it came in the standard paper thin mailer from BB.

My pics aren't as good as I couldn't get the closeup macro to work right.
Anyway, I circled the cracked area.

[srw1000]

Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman

Got my first cracked BD from BB today.
The crack characterists looks just like yours.
Crack on the bottom & top.

Thanks for posting the pictures. Did you have any playback problems?

Scott

[42Plasmaman]

Originally Posted by srw1000

Thanks for posting the pictures. Did you have any playback problems?

Scott

Watched it lastnight on a BD35 with no issue & it appears to be a BD50 as well.

[mproper]

Thought I'd just update this. Got yet another one from NF last night with the same kind of crack (disc was 30 Days of Night). That makes about 1/2 dozen total, with 4 of them being in the last month or so. Seems to be getting worse since in the prior year I had only gotten 2.

I was a bit worried I had broken my PS3, since I did not check the disc and just put in the my PS3....which just ground on it for like 5 minutes before finally spitting it out (eject wouldn't work, and AFAIK, there's no way to manually force an eject on a PS3 by sticking a paper clip in a small hole or something....).

so lessoned learn....check the disc for cracks before I put it in my PS3.

[nexus99]

About 90% of the BR disks I get from NetFlicks are EC (edge Cracked). Its almost certainly sorting equipment the post office is using. I am about to go onto their biggest plan so I can see 50 BR disks destroyed by the post office each month. Its time for NF to upgrade their BR disc packing.

PS3s will not play EC disks at all.

[tmoth]

Here is my current situation. Looks like 1 of my past 18 disks has arrived uncracked. PS3 will not play these edge cracked discs. Every one has been similar to that shown in the original post.

[fpconvert]

Out of the dozens of BDs i've rented, i've had one that was cracked. Most look unused when they arrive compared to reg. dvds, some of which look like people use sandpaper on them.
I would imagine that after the disc has been rented several dozen times and the subsequent sale in the used disc market, NF has had a good return on the money originally paid for the disc. The cost to produce new "mailer packing" for all BD would not make sense.

[mproper]

Originally Posted by tmoth

Here is my current situation. Looks like 1 of my past 18 disks has arrived uncracked. PS3 will not play these edge cracked discs. Every one has been similar to that shown in the original post.

See my post above about my PS3 choking on a cracked disc. I am checking my discs very carefully now on before I put them in my PS3. If it's cracked, it's not going in there.

Originally Posted by fpconvert

Out of the dozens of BDs i've rented, i've had one that was cracked. Most look unused when they arrive compared to reg. dvds, some of which look like people use sandpaper on them.
I would imagine that after the disc has been rented several dozen times and the subsequent sale in the used disc market, NF has had a good return on the money originally paid for the disc. The cost to produce new "mailer packing" for all BD would not make sense.

Yeah, the added cost of new packaging for Blu-Rays (and perhaps added shipping costs and maybe even new equipment at the warehouses) probably doesn't offset the costs of just replacing the discs that break.

Here is a blog post at wired (FWIW) that indicates it's a growing problem, but could be the post office machines or even something at the distribution center (which might explain why people like me are having more problems than others who might be at a different center)

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/0...d-netflix.html

Also, they have an interactive zeemaps to track where the cracked discs are coming from (it's new so there's no a lot of activity, but maybe that will help). I am adding my cracked discs and my uncracked discs as well (for 2009)
http://www.zeemaps.com/119788

If you do a Google of "cracked Netflix Blu-Ray" you'll see a ton of stuff. DVD's would just arrived all scratched, but Blu-Rays are cracked, which sucks worse.

Also FWIW, here's my list of cracked Blu-Rays. Only 7 total, but 4 of them have been in the last month.

Iron Man: 10/24/08
Journey To the Center of the Earth: 11/10/08
Gone Baby Gone: 2/25/09
The Orphanage: 3/18/09
Untraceable: 3/19/09
No Country For Old Men: 3/31/09
30 Days of Night: 4/15/09

[millerbrad]

Since I started my Netflix subscription last March, I've received:

- 1 (4.3%) damaged DVD (severely scratched - on 4/17/08)
- 22 undamaged DVDs

- 7 (11.1%) damaged Blu-Rays (all edge-cracked)
- DATES: 8/1/08, 11/7/08, 1/24/09, 1/23/09, 1/30/09, 2/15/09, 2/18/09,
- 56 undamaged Blu-Rays

I wonder if cold weather predisposes discs to cracking, since this hasn't been a problem lately for me?

[srw1000]

Originally Posted by mproper

Here is a blog post at wired (FWIW) that indicates it's a growing problem, but could be the post office machines or even something at the distribution center (which might explain why people like me are having more problems than others who might be at a different center)

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/0...d-netflix.html

Thanks for posting that link. There's some good information.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

For the purpose of cracks, do you believe there is a difference between DVDs, CDs, or BDs? If so, why?

From that linked blog:

Blu-ray discs differ from standard-definition discs in the way they are produced and how they store data. Standard definition DVDs are two clear polycarbonate discs, each 0.6mm thick, sandwiched together with the data recorded on a very thin metal substrate in between, explains Adrienne Downey, senior analyst at research firm Semico.

Blu-ray is a single 1.1mm polycarbonate disc that has the data encoded at the top. Blu-ray discs have a 0.1 mm coating on top of the data layer to protect it from getting scratched. Because the coating is much thinner than the 0.6mm sandwich used in DVDs, it could be more vulnerable to scratches and cracks.

"The coating is supposed to protect the discs but it could also be making them more brittle," says Downey. "Ultimately Blu-ray is a new technology and they are still working the kinks out of it." Downey says it will be another year or two before the whole Blu-ray ecosystem is entirely problem-free.

So, in a couple of years, this might be a non-issue. Let's hope, anyway.

Scott

[victor_c26]

Another report coming from Chicago, IL:

[amillians]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

This is a mystery crack. It produced a very similar result to the one that srw1000 posted. Anyone want to guess how it was made?

It looks as if it was done with a very finely ground axe.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by amillians

It looks as if it was done with a very finely ground axe.

Would that be a single or double bladed axe?

[amillians]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Would that be a single or double bladed axe?

Why, a dual layer one, of course.

[johnbe]

tmoth

I was wondering if Netflix has ever sent you an email warning you about the problem with your account. Not that I blame you. Personally, I think it is a post office problem with processing those cheap mailers. As it is, you are not getting a good value for your money.

Have you thought about going down to the post office and show them a disc or two? It would be interesting to know what they have to say about it. As long as it is not out of your way.

If that was my account, I would have cancelled all ready. You have more patients than me.