POTC BD FRAMING ERROR and comparisons using DIGITAL caps*Denner's companion thread

Xylon · 08-31-07, 12:59 AM

UPDATE: Fill out this page to get your replacement discs!

http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/g...lem/report.tpl

UPDATE: Disney acknowledges the framing error. Replacement discs and corrected discs shipped!

Framing error on the Blu-ray release discovered by Denner - Director and AVS member.

Original discussion thread (MAIN)

The DVD is R1.

I watched the movie from beginning to end using this setup -

- Using MPC. Both playing simultaneously to make sure I don't miss anything. I eventually used one monitor for both playback because its easier on the eyes (I sit too close):

All images are in JPEG format 1920x1080 except BBCHD its 1964x1080. There is no need for PNG because we are not comparing PQ here.

Xylon · 08-31-07, 12:59 AM

It starts when this scene begins. Not much of an "error" but the framing is already different from the DVD.

From this post the following are:

DVD
Blu-ray
BBCHD H.264 1440x1080i from European broadcast
ABC Mpeg-2 1280x720p USA broadcast

Xylon · 08-31-07, 01:00 AM

This is the time frame where it really gets obvious.

Xylon · 08-31-07, 01:00 AM

Not the same exact frame as above. I think I miss one or two.

Xylon · 08-31-07, 01:00 AM

Xylon · 08-31-07, 01:01 AM

Look closely between Blu-ray and ABC Mpeg-2. Do you see something similar? Look at the bottom.

Xylon · 08-31-07, 01:01 AM

Thats it for today. I will post the rest tomorrow.

ResOGlas · 08-31-07, 01:05 AM

Thanks Xylon, your contributions to this site are invaluable. I can't wait to see wait to see your comparisons.

(I can delete this post if you want the space)

shadowrage · 08-31-07, 01:35 AM

How the hell does anyone even catch this? Seriously, an eagle couldn't tell the difference. Could it be that the framing on the DVD is wrong. Afterall they are animorphic.

Does this change the composition of the shots at all, or the film itself?

I like POTC but it's hard to sit through film just once. You did it twice, with the film playing in double vision, with two eyes. That's like watching one POTC film for 40hrs(the math is right) in one sitting(whatever the runtime is).

Thanks for doing this though. I wonder if any other BD's have this issue. Or maybe just the Disney discs.

When I first opened the thread I saw the covers and thought, "well yeah, framing error indeed"

Capek · 08-31-07, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowrage

How the hell does anyone even catch this? Seriously, an eagle couldn't tell the difference. Could it be that the framing on the DVD is wrong. Afterall they are animorphic.

Dude, the guy's head is cut off in the second shot. The real question is how could anybody NOT catch this!

DeathStalker2 · 08-31-07, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capek

Dude, the guy's head is cut off in the second shot. The real question is how could anybody NOT catch this!

LOL.

tintin1001 · 08-31-07, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capek

Dude, the guy's head is cut off in the second shot. The real question is how could anybody NOT catch this!

Obviously your wrong if this was a clear head cut catch thing we would have heard about it earlier. Many have seen this and just didn´t catch it.

Did you see the bluray yourself?

shadowrage · 08-31-07, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capek

Dude, the guy's head is cut off in the second shot. The real question is how could anybody NOT catch this!

Ohh there was another shot with Orland Bloom. Good point.

But maybe it's just because Orlando Bloom's face looks too beautiful in HD.

I looked at the other shot and now all I can think about are Orlando Bloom's lips. Looks like I won't be sleeping tonight. But I think I know why the editor wasn't concentrating now.

I didn't see the other cap the first time, that's pretty big damn mistake.

Capek · 08-31-07, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin1001

Obviously your wrong if this was a clear head cut catch thing we would have heard about it earlier. Many have seen this and just didn´t catch it.

Did you see the bluray yourself?

Xylon provided photographic evidence! Look at the pictures compared in post # 3.

Anyways, what I've ultimately taken from this situation is that the BD owners on this forum don't have wifes or girlfriends with whom they watch their BDs. Because I can say with the utmost assuredness that if I had been watching this BD with my girlfriend, she sure as hell would have noticed that Orlando Blooms head was cut off!

oink · 08-31-07, 02:25 AM

The framing "error" is obvious.
H264 looks like the framing has been opened up a bit.
Good for BD!

Kram Sacul · 08-31-07, 02:26 AM

Man, the ABC HD version looks like junk. I think the dvd might be actually be a little better. The shadow detail on both are horrible (3rd set of pics).

It's sad the BRD is crippled by this framing issue as it's clearly the most detailed (albeit a little grainy).

Kram Sacul · 08-31-07, 02:50 AM

The open matte version is hilarious.

Xylon · 08-31-07, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capek

Anyways, what I've ultimately taken from this situation is that the BD owners on this forum don't have wifes or girlfriends with whom they watch their BDs. Because I can say with the utmost assuredness that if I had been watching this BD with my girlfriend, she sure as hell would have noticed that Orlando Blooms head was cut off!

There is only ONE LOGICAL EXPLANATION for this. Obsession with watching the bit rate counter on their PS3

Denner · 08-31-07, 03:15 AM

Hi Xylon.

Thanks for taking the time and doing this high end comparison, instead of the crappy photos that I took for my original thread

Now I will be rid of all the people bashing me and calling me a lier and accusing me of photoshopping the pictures and faking the evidence

THANKS MAN

Xylon · 08-31-07, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowrage

I like POTC but it's hard to sit through film just once. You did it twice, with the film playing in double vision, with two eyes. That's like watching one POTC film for 40hrs(the math is right) in one sitting(whatever the runtime is).

Thanks for doing this though. I wonder if any other BD's have this issue. Or maybe just the Disney discs.

One thing for certain, I need to upgrade this PC to QUAD CORE so next time it will be VC-1 and AVC playing at the same time

BerserkerTails · 08-31-07, 03:57 AM

Thanks for the great comparison shots, Xylon. Now, when will Disney get back to everyone on the problem? I seriously hope they do a disc replacement program.

Bar81 · 08-31-07, 05:26 AM

Wow. Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty funny that having a dude's head chopped off is apparently not noticeable. Ooops Disney.

joekun · 08-31-07, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Now I will be rid of all the people bashing me and calling me a lier and accusing me of photoshopping the pictures and faking the evidence

Er, probably not, they'll just find something else to say, but who cares about them. This is definitely an issue that needs addressing as the framing is totally unacceptable.

Denner · 08-31-07, 05:59 AM

Hear you, but I have been a public target since I noticed, and now it is just nice to be able to concentrate on the most important thing, and that is to get Disney to make a replacement or money back program :-)

joekun · 08-31-07, 06:02 AM

That's cool. I think a lot of us really appreciate you bringing it to light, so thanks!

metalsaber · 08-31-07, 08:27 AM

While I never would have noticed it until you brought it up, but it clearly should have been caught.

cawgijoe · 08-31-07, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar81

Wow. Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty funny that having a dude's head chopped off is apparently not noticeable. Ooops Disney.

Good catch by Denner. Nice job Xylon.

I thought the same thing, but when I watched this the first time in "real time" not anticipating any problems, it went so fast that I didn't notice. Even watching it again this week it still goes by so quickly that you don't even really think about it.

It still needs to be fixed if it's a mistake.

That's my position....and I'm sticking to it!

Dioneo · 08-31-07, 08:36 AM

I'd also like to thank Denner for catching this and bringing it to our attention. I don't know how anyone can argue that there is no framing error, or that maybe the DVD was wrong and the BD version is correct. The shots in post #6 are all the evidence you need that the framing is wrong.

lgans316 · 08-31-07, 08:58 AM

The top portion is cut off but more details can now be seen at the bottom. Does this appear throughout the movie or only at certain scenes. Thanks to Denner and Xylon for the excellent work.

Malec · 08-31-07, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgans316

Does this appear throughout the movie or only at certain scenes[?]

So far it only appears in certain scenes during an ~8 minute stretch near the beginning.

08-31-07, 12:59 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	*POTC BD FRAMING ERROR and comparisons using DIGITAL capsDenner's companion thread UPDATE: Fill out this page to get your replacement discs! http://studio.go.com/cgi-bin/gmail/g...lem/report.tpl UPDATE: Disney acknowledges the framing error. Replacement discs and corrected discs shipped! Framing error on the Blu-ray release discovered by Denner - Director and AVS member. Original discussion thread (MAIN) The DVD is R1. I watched the movie from beginning to end using this setup - - Using MPC. Both playing simultaneously to make sure I don't miss anything. I eventually used one monitor for both playback because its easier on the eyes (I sit too close): All images are in JPEG format 1920x1080 except BBCHD its 1964x1080. There is no need for PNG because we are not comparing PQ here. __________________ AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog** Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-08 at 08:25 AM..

08-31-07, 12:59 AM	#2 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	It starts when this scene begins. Not much of an "error" but the framing is already different from the DVD. From this post the following are: DVD Blu-ray BBCHD H.264 1440x1080i from European broadcast ABC Mpeg-2 1280x720p USA broadcast __________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 01:16 AM..

08-31-07, 01:00 AM	#3 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	This is the time frame where it really gets obvious. __________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 01:41 AM..

08-31-07, 01:00 AM	#4 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	Not the same exact frame as above. I think I miss one or two. __________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 01:41 AM..

08-31-07, 01:00 AM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	__________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 02:05 AM..

08-31-07, 01:01 AM	#6 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	Look closely between Blu-ray and ABC Mpeg-2. Do you see something similar? Look at the bottom. __________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 02:38 AM..

08-31-07, 01:01 AM	#7 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,362	Thats it for today. I will post the rest tomorrow. __________________ *AVS High Definition(sic) Sat (Dand E), Cable, OTA, FIOS and EU screenshots* Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 08-31-07 at 02:42 AM..

08-31-07, 01:05 AM	#8 \| Link
ResOGlas AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,345 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	Thanks Xylon, your contributions to this site are invaluable. I can't wait to see wait to see your comparisons. (I can delete this post if you want the space)

08-31-07, 01:35 AM	#9 \| Link
shadowrage AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,730 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	How the hell does anyone even catch this? Seriously, an eagle couldn't tell the difference. Could it be that the framing on the DVD is wrong. Afterall they are animorphic. Does this change the composition of the shots at all, or the film itself? I like POTC but it's hard to sit through film just once. You did it twice, with the film playing in double vision, with two eyes. That's like watching one POTC film for 40hrs(the math is right) in one sitting(whatever the runtime is). Thanks for doing this though. I wonder if any other BD's have this issue. Or maybe just the Disney discs. When I first opened the thread I saw the covers and thought, "well yeah, framing error indeed"

08-31-07, 02:25 AM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
oink Pathetic Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: CHOAM Rep. Posts: 7,942	The framing "error" is obvious. H264 looks like the framing has been opened up a bit. Good for BD! __________________ *Insist* BD studios use seamless branching for different cuts on one 50gb disk and end double-dipping.

08-31-07, 02:26 AM	#16 \| Link
Kram Sacul Screenshot Scientist Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,766	Man, the ABC HD version looks like junk. I think the dvd might be actually be a little better. The shadow detail on both are horrible (3rd set of pics). It's sad the BRD is crippled by this framing issue as it's clearly the most detailed (albeit a little grainy).

08-31-07, 02:50 AM	#17 \| Link
Kram Sacul Screenshot Scientist Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,766	The open matte version is hilarious.

08-31-07, 03:15 AM	#19 \| Link
Denner Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 223	Hi Xylon. Thanks for taking the time and doing this high end comparison, instead of the crappy photos that I took for my original thread Now I will be rid of all the people bashing me and calling me a lier and accusing me of photoshopping the pictures and faking the evidence THANKS MAN

08-31-07, 03:57 AM	#21 \| Link
BerserkerTails Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 397	Thanks for the great comparison shots, Xylon. Now, when will Disney get back to everyone on the problem? I seriously hope they do a disc replacement program.

08-31-07, 05:26 AM	#22 \| Link
Bar81 Advanced Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 516	Wow. Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty funny that having a dude's head chopped off is apparently not noticeable. Ooops Disney.

08-31-07, 05:59 AM	#24 \| Link
Denner Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 223	Hear you, but I have been a public target since I noticed, and now it is just nice to be able to concentrate on the most important thing, and that is to get Disney to make a replacement or money back program :-)

08-31-07, 06:02 AM	#25 \| Link
joekun YACHIMAE!!!! Join Date: May 2001 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 3,143	That's cool. I think a lot of us really appreciate you bringing it to light, so thanks!

08-31-07, 08:27 AM	#26 \| Link
metalsaber Al Roker's #1 Fan Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Western, Pennsylvania Posts: 2,990	While I never would have noticed it until you brought it up, but it clearly should have been caught. __________________ My Blog My Photo Gallery Phillips 1080p 47PFL7432D/37 LCD Review

08-31-07, 08:36 AM	#28 \| Link
Dioneo N'er do well Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: GTA IV Posts: 578	I'd also like to thank Denner for catching this and bringing it to our attention. I don't know how anyone can argue that there is no framing error, or that maybe the DVD was wrong and the BD version is correct. The shots in post #6 are all the evidence you need that the framing is wrong.

08-31-07, 08:58 AM	#29 \| Link
lgans316 Never Ever Warn-her Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bangalore India Posts: 6,235	The top portion is cut off but more details can now be seen at the bottom. Does this appear throughout the movie or only at certain scenes. Thanks to Denner and Xylon for the excellent work. __________________ Blu-ray : *177 + 4 + 1 + (5* + 2* + 3 + 1) ; HD DVD : SAYONARA**